Re: Religion.

by solo nubarron. Sat 25 Oct 2008, 4:06 pm

My family converted from the Protestant, methodist side to the full-blooded Christian side.

I usually spend at least an hour reading the bible a day, and my family prays before we eat, we leave the house, and in everything we really rely on God's Word. I'm homestudied, and our textbooks have Christian-related topics, and they completely changed me from being a sort-of rebel-like person to a more calm and collected one. I learn alot from God, and everytime I pray to Him, I feel safer, a bit more optimistic. Being with God doesn't make me afraid, and I just feel completely invincible with Him.

I shudder when I see Paganism and Satanism being practiced, and it's just...horrid. All they do is make these rituals, sacrificing flesh and blood, and spit on the floor like monkeys...it's ghastly. >_<

I have a bunch of friends who are Catholics, Protestants, and few Buddhists. I sometimes invite them to church and invite them to mine, and it's all good. ^_^

by proust. Wed 29 Oct 2008, 7:01 pm

mr. beanstalk. wrote:My family converted from the Protestant, methodist side to the full-blooded Christian side.

could you please explain to me the differences between the two.
Because Protestantism is a Christian denomination in itself.

and an interesting question: how much impact did your parents have on your general view on religion?

by .I'm Not Afraid. Thu 30 Oct 2008, 1:44 am

andILY. wrote:and an interesting question: how much impact did your parents have on your general view on religion?

I don't know if you're asking the person you quoted or if it's just generally open to the public, but I find it interesting that you ask it. And I hope you don't mind but I'm going to answer you, anyway.

My parents started taking me to church when I was little. I don't remember much about it, except the fact that I really enjoyed going. It was fun for me, even if I didn't understand a lot of what they were saying.

Then, after a while, they stopped going because they disagreed with what they were saying and how they were saying it. After that, I decided that I was not going to go to church ever again. Because, if it wasn't right for my parents, why should it be right for me?

A good couple of years later and here I am, a "Bible thumper" some would say, and perfetly happy with life. My parents disagree with a lot of what I believe and we have fights constantly because of it. They tell me they don't want me going anymore because it's "changed who I am". Well, if you ask me these changes are for the better. I've stopped cutting, stopped being suicidal, and am overall a lot happier.

So, I guess, all in all, they've really had very little impact. I am who I am, and I've made all of my religious choices on my own.

by Alice in Wonderland. Thu 30 Oct 2008, 4:52 am

.I'm Not Afraid. wrote:
andILY. wrote:and an interesting question: how much impact did your parents have on your general view on religion?

I don't know if you're asking the person you quoted or if it's just generally open to the public, but I find it interesting that you ask it. And I hope you don't mind but I'm going to answer you, anyway.

Same here.

When I was younger my dad and stepmom had a lot of effect on what I believed. I would be virtually unrecognizable to anyone on here. I was the type of Christian that I hate. Pro-life, anti-gay, anti-Harry Potter, anti-any type of tolerance for other types of beliefs. But I was content...

... until my mother moved back to the Midwest and I we argued a lot and I grew up a lot. And I realized that wasn't what I believed. But I'm still a Christian. Just a very different one. I took from both sets of parents and made something of my own. [My mother is an Atheist.]

by proust. Thu 30 Oct 2008, 11:29 pm

.I'm Not Afraid. wrote:I don't know if you're asking the person you quoted or if it's just generally open to the public, but I find it interesting that you ask it. And I hope you don't mind but I'm going to answer you, anyway.

No, it's okay, I meant it for everyone.
I thought it was an interesting matter.

Did you ever get the impression that you had to be different than your parents?
As if, somehow, your parents perfectly represented their religious beliefs in your mind, and when you got in conflict with them you started to disagree with the religious views too. Because I too have pretty different views on religion than my parents -they're both agnostic- and I've started to notice a pattern here.
It could, maybe, be a sort of rebellion against them to choose a different set of religious beliefs than theirs?

by bittersweet. Fri 31 Oct 2008, 2:27 am

andILY. wrote:and an interesting question: how much impact did your parents have on your general view on religion?

Quite a bit, initially.
They took me to church every week when I was little. I hated anything that my parents liked, so, naturally, I hated church. I was relieved when we stopped going regularly. We started again in time for me to go through confirmation and my first communion, but I really didn't believe any of it.

Then, last year, some one of my very close friends started going to church. I was scared she'd start getting all snobby and excluding, like the girls at my church. But she didn't...she only got happier. She could deal better.
I went to her youth group once. Then a Sunday service. Now I go to youth group every week and I'm a "Bible thumper", as she says.

God is the biggest part of my life...and my parents don't like it.
Like Katie said, they want me to stop going because it's 'changing me'. They nearly freaked out when they saw a psalm written on my folder and they say I spend too much time reading my Bible.

I guess they shaped me in the beginning...but I've grown away from their influence.

by .I'm Not Afraid. Fri 31 Oct 2008, 2:45 am

andILY. wrote:
.I'm Not Afraid. wrote:I don't know if you're asking the person you quoted or if it's just generally open to the public, but I find it interesting that you ask it. And I hope you don't mind but I'm going to answer you, anyway.
No, it's okay, I meant it for everyone.
I thought it was an interesting matter.

Did you ever get the impression that you had to be different than your parents?
As if, somehow, your parents perfectly represented their religious beliefs in your mind, and when you got in conflict with them you started to disagree with the religious views too. Because I too have pretty different views on religion than my parents -they're both agnostic- and I've started to notice a pattern here.
It could, maybe, be a sort of rebellion against them to choose a different set of religious beliefs than theirs?

In some cases, that might be what's going on, sure. But I know that specifically in my case, it wasn't.

I think what really got me to start going every week, and what really got me hooked on the idea of God in general was (as silly as it might sound) this line from a song that we sung the first day I went. It said, "You see the depths of my hear, and you love me the same." (Chris Tomlin - Indescribable, just in case anyone wanted to know.) And just the idea that, "Hey, I'm loved, even if I've don't some pretty crappy stuff. I'm loved even though I have these deep dark secrets inside of me." Just to me, that seemed pretty awesome. No relation to the parents what so ever, with me.

What about you guys? What made you believe what you believe? Parents? Personal experiences?

by guilded sleuth Wed 12 Nov 2008, 8:52 pm

I'm a born-again Christian.
I go to church and pray for people at a place called the Brisbane Healing Rooms.
I don't follow any particular denomination, I just follow God.

Why am I a Christian?
There's a few reasons.
One of which is that for the most part of last year I suffered from severe depression amoung other things. I was self-harming and, basically a big mess.
However, when I started to receive prayer from people such as those working at the Healing Rooms, and seek God, I began to feel myself lifting out of that horrible pit of depression.
Throughout my life I have seen many things happen that I could only describe as a miracle.

I'm not at all a fan of those church where it's all dead silent and everybody's all stuck-up and hate anybody who sins and all that.
It goes against what being a Christian is about in my opinion.
Being a Christian to me means that we are admitting that we can't do life alone and we seriously need some help and Jesus is the only reliable and trustworthy One.

You could really call me a spiritual Christian.
I believe in the power of God to heal people etc.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, but also of the existence of evil spirits.
I suppose that's what helps me love everone easier, if they're being suppressed by a spirit, how can they in their own power control what they do?

Am I tolerant of other Religions?
Absolutely, but that doesn't mean I agree with them.
I love everyone despite their Religious belief [or lack there of].
I do however believe that the one and only way to heaven is through Jesus, after all that's what the Bible says.
Did God decide on that?
Yes; it was either that or everyone goes to hell so I'm praising God for choosing this option xD

Christianity has truly been given a bad name.
People immediately think of hypocrites, liars and generally people you just don't want to know.
I don't blame people for thinking like this, I used to feel the same way.

Anyay, enough said.

by .I'm Not Afraid. Thu 13 Nov 2008, 7:51 am

I agree with everything that you just said. ^.^ And praise God for your beautiful testimony!

It's such an encouragement to hear that you got through all that, and I'm really glad that God helped you through all your hard times. It's wonderful to hear all that He does for us on a day to day basis, and even in the long run.

Isn't it amazing what God can help us out of? I actually went through a similar thing, with depression and self harm.

I had cut more than I usually had a bit ago and I thought the scars would never go away. Yet, I asked for prayer and I had hands laid on them, and surprise surprise (Not really, I expected this would happen...) they've almost vanished completely!

I also especially agree with you on the silent, boring churches. I went to one of those churches when I was little and it turned me away from religion. But last year I found a true God seeking and following church, at its truly amazing, I've seen so many miracles there, so many things I never thought possible. And it's those things that make you say... "How can you NOT believe this?"

But like you said, you don't have to agree with it to be tolerant of it.

God Bless.
^.^

by guilded sleuth Thu 13 Nov 2008, 11:50 am

Wow thanks so much!

Seriously how awesome is God??
I just love hearing those kind of stories like with your scars! Just amazing!
I should really ask God to heal my scars too, because that's not the first time I've heard about God healing scars from self harm.

My church is like that too; constant miracles :D
It's so exciting and it makes you wonder what on earth you were doing in those other churches we used to go to!

It's really awesome to find other young people on fire for God like you are!
It's always encouraging.
When I look around at people at my school, sometimes I feel like it's almost impossible for other young people to get saved.
Thanks for the encouragement :D

God bless you!!

by proust. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 1:01 am

guilded sleuth wrote:I do however believe that the one and only way to heaven is through Jesus, after all that's what the Bible says.
Did God decide on that?
Yes; it was either that or everyone goes to hell so I'm praising God for choosing this option xD

So, it's okay if a few millions Jews/Muslims/Buddhists/etc. to go to Hell as long as we -Christians- will go to Heaven ?

by **more adventurous.** Tue 18 Nov 2008, 3:55 am

kafka. wrote:
guilded sleuth wrote:I do however believe that the one and only way to heaven is through Jesus, after all that's what the Bible says.
Did God decide on that?
Yes; it was either that or everyone goes to hell so I'm praising God for choosing this option xD
So, it's okay if a few millions Jews/Muslims/Buddhists/etc. to go to Hell as long as we -Christians- will go to Heaven ?

I don't think that is something we can know. We aren't God, or whichever higher power we believe in.

BUT, on the topic of Jewish people..
One time I asked about that, because they do believe in God.
My pioneer clubs teacher told me she doesn't know because well, she isn't God, but she told me that Jewish people were God's chosen people and he never forgets his chosen people.

by .I'm Not Afraid. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 8:15 am

sad robots. wrote:
kafka. wrote:
guilded sleuth wrote:I do however believe that the one and only way to heaven is through Jesus, after all that's what the Bible says.
Did God decide on that?
Yes; it was either that or everyone goes to hell so I'm praising God for choosing this option xD
So, it's okay if a few millions Jews/Muslims/Buddhists/etc. to go to Hell as long as we -Christians- will go to Heaven ?

I don't think that is something we can know. We aren't God, or whichever higher power we believe in.

That is true, we aren't God.
That's why He gave us the Bible, so that we would know how to live according to what He wants for us and all that he expects from us. And in the Bible God says and describes those who would go to heaven and those who wouldn't.
Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean that everyone should go around damning people. But God did tell us what it takes for us to get into heaven, and the first step is acknowledging Jesus as God's only son, and that he died on the cross so that we wouldn't have to go to hell.
Sometimes it all just boils down to you and God. God knows your heart, He knows your every thoughts, your every word, and your every action. He knows absolutely everything, everything about you. And if your not saved (Saved is what Christians call it when someone accepts Jesus as their savior, just in case someone didn't know.) that can be a very scary thing, and ulitmately He is the judge, but He left it up to us to chose him. It's all about free will.
God wants us to chose him.
He loves us. Every single one of us, whether you believe in Him or not. Because when he made the world (Yes, I do beleive that God created the world, but that's a different subject.) He had YOU in mind, he had me in mind, every single one of our faces and names went through His mind. And when Jesus died on the cross, He did it for us. Every single on of us.
That kind of love just baffles me. No one could ever wrap around that kind of love.
And with that amazing love comes punishment. God punishes those He loves, He is a just and holy God, so if someone defies Him, He has to stay true to His word.
Think of it like this: God is a judge. Have you ever heard of a judge that let someone go, even if they broke the law? Well, maybe, because this world isn't perfect. But I highly doubt that a judge who KNEW that this person broke the law and they had all the evidence in the world to prove that they did break the law, and that judge still let him go, that wouldn't be fair, would it?
Take from this what you will.

Love.
God Bless.

by proust. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 11:01 am

Let's look at it from this perspective:
1. God is just, it's one of His attributes, He is absolute justice.
2. There are people who never had the chance to know of Jesus and God, for example Australia aboriginals. Until recent times, they had no contact with the rest of the world thus with Christianity.
3. God punishes those who don't believe in Him by sending them to Hell.
4. Is it just to punish someone for something they have no control over/for breaking a law they knew nothing of?

hmmmm

I do remember that somewhere in the Bible it said that Jesus will even preach in the house of the dead, but I don't remember the context clearly. Maybe you do.

by Heartswell. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 11:28 am

We believe in the same God [as Andy previously stated on this thread] but we have many names and interpretations for him.
God will always be there until the end of time, but we won't.

Also, the reason to why sematic religions exist is that the previous religions 'strayed'. Well, according to what I've been taught for the last, I dunno... 10 years, the Bible was overwritten and distorted, same with the Torah. In my faith, the only untouched book in the Quran, because the texts have been the same since it first came to existence [straight from the heavens and God's mouth].

I personally doubt that there's any point to dwelling over 'my god/religion is better than your god/religion.' because well... you'll find out when you're dead, I suppose. . _ . I don't know about how other religions describe the process of judgment [in your grave] but in Islam, when you're dead and buried in your grave, the last sense to leave your body is your hearing so you can actually hear the people above walking away after your burial.
If I remember correctly, you'd have two Angels asking you questions like 'Are you a believer?' and if you're a Muslim, you'd naturally say 'Yes' but if you're not your tongue would roll 'No.'
Then there's the long process of your soul leaving your body through crushing pains you have pleased him

If you're a good person, your grave would be a heaven, if you weren't it'd be a pit of hell... you'd have to burn until Judgment Day arrives you have pleased him

I used to read a lot about death whatnow? O_O

We also have very vivid descriptions of Judgment Day and how everyone's crammed in one placed, naked, but due to the horror of the event you'd even ignore your family.

Oh, and when you're judged every organ from your body will speak of what it did. Like your eyes would say, 'I saw this and saw that' and they'd admit everything bad you'd ever did you have pleased him

I rambled a bit, but I just thought you'd be interested whatnow? O_O

Don't get me started on how people get punished in hell. You don't just burn. Very colorful images. >_>

by guilded sleuth Tue 18 Nov 2008, 11:42 am

This is how i see it.

God wants every single person on the planet to go to heaven with him, more than anyone can imagine.
He does everything He can do to ensure this.
He sent his son to die as a sacrifice in our place.
All we need to do now is ask God for His forgiveness and accept His forgiveness freely.

God doesn't damn people to hell.
He weeps over every lost soul.
However, if someone refuses to believe in God, He doesn't force them to change His mind. God is gentlemanly (unlike many of us Christians whatnow? O_O

).

Also, like prevoiusly mentioned, I believe in spiritual stuff.
If say, there is a group of people who haven't ever heard of Jesus, God can appear to them in dreams etc.
I have heard of these sorts of things happening around the world in places such as China.

Another thing, is that contrary to popular belief, God loves everyone equally despite their sins.
God is love, and we are His children. No sin can separate us from His love.

by Heartswell. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 3:37 pm

Muslims don't believe that God has a son. We believe in Jesus sure, but only as a prophet since God is perfect, therefore he doesn't have any of his beings' traits such as reproduction. He created everything knowing where it'll end [a mixture of freewill and pre-destination].

I don't think God would appear in anyone's dreams. What I know is that everyone's responsible for their own fate and finding the right religion.

When it comes to heaven, according to our teachings [or what my parents told me at least >_>] is that if you're a Muslim you'll definitely go to heaven even if you're a sinner. Just spend some time in hell to componsate for your sins.
But it depends, cause there's a grey area. The people whose virtues are even with their sins [it's like a scale where both sins and virtues are weighed], you can beg for virtues from the residents of heaven, or they can give you thier sins if you've done something to them in your past life [like stole from them, hurt them, killed them etc. etc.].

Ironically, I'm not that fan of religion anymore LOL@CHUUU

I just know this stuff by heart. whatnow? O_O

I could go on and on explaining.
I just like how it's like a story you have pleased him

by proust. Tue 18 Nov 2008, 6:38 pm

I love Fatma and her extensive knowledge on the Islam. i r pleased.

Everything I know about it comes either from Arabian Nights or Orham Pamuk's books. whatnow? O_O

I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of the Quran from the Islamic League -thus an authorized holy copy, not some random one T_T- but eh, I have a class mate who's a librarian at our religious library but he gave me an odd look and told me they don't keep "profane" books there. @_@

Getting back to the point, there are pretty "graphic" illustration of the Afterlife/Last Judgment in Christianity too, at least in the Orthodox and Catholic denominations. Orthodox monasteries have really creepy paintings of the Last Judgment [like the Voronet one] and Catholics have Divina Commedia [which is really really really scary] together with most Medieval art.
^_^

guilded sleuth wrote:God doesn't damn people to hell.
He weeps over every lost soul.
However, if someone refuses to believe in God, He doesn't force them to change His mind. God is gentlemanly (unlike many of us Christians ).

Also, like prevoiusly mentioned, I believe in spiritual stuff.
If say, there is a group of people who haven't ever heard of Jesus, God can appear to them in dreams etc.
I have heard of these sorts of things happening around the world in places such as China.

I never said God wasn't love.
I just asked you if it's just to punish someone for breaking a law they don't know of.

Couldn't those people call God not the Lord, but say, Allah?

by lyrical_mess Wed 19 Nov 2008, 1:03 am

kafka. wrote:Let's look at it from this perspective:
1. God is just, it's one of His attributes, He is absolute justice.
2. There are people who never had the chance to know of Jesus and God, for example Australia aboriginals. Until recent times, they had no contact with the rest of the world thus with Christianity.
3. God punishes those who don't believe in Him by sending them to Hell.
4. Is it just to punish someone for something they have no control over/for breaking a law they knew nothing of?

I do remember that somewhere in the Bible it said that Jesus will even preach in the house of the dead, but I don't remember the context clearly. Maybe you do.

I like to think of this in terms of Narnia. According to Aslan, whoever does evil in Aslan's name is actually serving that vulture-thingy (Tash, was it?). Whoever does good in the name of the vulture-thingy is actually a servant of Aslan.

Its supposed to be a God vs. the Devil thing. I think if you do good, its good enough. If you're gonna be an asshole, well, buy a portable air conditioner cuz guess where you're headed. Or something to that effect.

by lyrical_mess Wed 19 Nov 2008, 1:06 am

kafka. wrote:

Couldn't those people call God not the Lord, but say, Allah?

I might be wrong (correct me Fatma) but I think Allah means God/the Lord. I mean, just cuz its not English...

Like, I could call God Mr.TeddyBear Blerktwdjstein or something, but y'know...as long as your heart and mind are in the right place. Although if I'm calling him Mr.TeddyBear Blerktwdjstein, my mind might not really be in the right place. *shrugs*

by Heartswell. Wed 19 Nov 2008, 2:42 am

That's right. It's the standard word for 'God' for Muslims [even Arab non-Muslims at times]. It's just another widely-known term for 'God'.
>_> In Islam, we actually have 99 adjectives that can be used as an alternative for Allah [they're his 99 names] like, 'Al-Alim' meaning 'The All Knowing, The Omniscient'.
You can actually find them here.

by **LADIES AND GENTLEMEN** Wed 19 Nov 2008, 7:13 am

kafka. wrote:I love Fatma and her extensive knowledge on the Islam. Everything I know about it comes either from Arabian Nights or Orham Pamuk's books. I'm trying to get my hands on a copy of the Quran from the Islamic League -thus an authorized holy copy, not some random one T_T- but eh, I have a class mate who's a librarian at our religious library but he gave me an odd look and told me they don't keep "profane" books there. @_@

That actually made me feel physically sick.

What the fuck happened to freedom of religion?

I may not be religious, but I nearly converted to islam a while back, when I held more faith in... well, everything.

It's a beautiful religion and I love that for once, people are given a chance. There is no eternal damnation or horror. Allah is forgiving no matter what, not forgiving only if you do exactly what he tells you and apologise constantly if you do. Its fair and it doesnt teach you only about the afterlife; in the five commandments it requires believers to donate %5 of their annual earnings to charity.

The Quran is much more about how to live peacefully and respectfully than how to avoid getting into hell. As far as I've read, its almost like a Bhuddist influenced Bible.

What I do hate is the way some arabic cultures use it for control. This is mainly because it affects the way the outside world sees islam as a whole, when really, extremist groups are nothing on the huge scale of believers out there.

For example, the choice to wear the hijab is just that - a choice. Allah does not want you to be lustful or to lust, so he asks that you cover yourself - out of respect only for yourself. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of anywhere in the Quran where it states that women must cover themselves.

The people forced to wear these garments are done so because of their culture, not religion, and the teo are very different things. The taliban, for example, give the impression that all muslims MUST cover themselves. In fact, a lot of western muslims are discouraged from it but choose to anyway, out of respect for themselves and their religion.

Ugh, I must add this - a friend of mine recently referred to a couple of muslim girls at my school as 'Sand niggers'. He's one of those DESTROY ALL TOWELHEADS people.

Needless to say he's not my friend any longer, because I can't stand racism, but he was shocked when I told him how much respect I had for Islam. It surprises me how few people realise that its not an extremist religion.

I also agree that there was definitely a Jesus Christ. I simply don't believe that he was anything ethereal. A prophet? Perhaps. An extremely wise, fair man, definitely. I just don't believe he was the son of god.

I'm not saying he wasn;t. Its just my opinion.

by proust. Wed 19 Nov 2008, 10:57 am

Ryan Ross wrote:That actually made me feel physically sick.

What the fuck happened to freedom of religion?

I may not be religious, but I nearly converted to islam a while back, when I held more faith in... well, everything.

That's just it, don't people have the right not to agree with a certain religion?

I've been friends with this boy [the librarian] for about two years and a half and for the past year until recently, we used to fight all the time. Among others because he's homophobic, he thinks homosexuality is wrong and doesn't support gay marriage. Now this obviously drove me absolutely mad and I tried everything to talk him out of it. Until I realized I was being a huge hypocrite, who am I to decide what opinion is the right one? Who am I to try to enforce my opinions in others?
He doesn't abuse -verbally or physically- anyone, he doesn't go around telling how wrong it is, just when asked he'll give you his honest opinion. The same way you or me would.

Per genere, we're not anti-Islamic more than we are antisemitic.
You need to take into consideration the fact that from around the 12th century until after WWI we've constantly fought against the Ottoman Empire. We've been under direct Turkish domination for about 400 years and we took a lot of culture and civilisation elements from them.

[I also agree with the rest of your post, it was just too long to quote it all.]

by lyrical_mess Wed 19 Nov 2008, 12:09 pm

Offtopic, but where do you live Kafka? Israel/Palestine-ish area?

by the way Wed 19 Nov 2008, 3:43 pm

kafka. wrote:
and an interesting question: how much impact did your parents have on your general view on religion?[/font]

They used to be Catholic, then when I was young they converted to Protestantism. I went with it for a while, until my early teens, then when I noticed that some of the teachings of the Bible seem to be wrong-- I veered away. I still believe in God, but many issues like pre-marital sex, alcohol, homosexuality, suicide, abortion, etc. I'm still figuring out my opinion on. It's not God who's flawed, but the Bible, which was written by man. I think so, anyway, yet my parents are hardcore Christians who are against stuff like Harry Potter and partying.

kafka. wrote:

Did you ever get the impression that you had to be different than your parents?
As if, somehow, your parents perfectly represented their religious beliefs in your mind, and when you got in conflict with them you started to disagree with the religious views too. Because I too have pretty different views on religion than my parents -they're both agnostic- and I've started to notice a pattern here.
It could, maybe, be a sort of rebellion against them to choose a different set of religious beliefs than theirs?[/font]

Not really. Many of my friends follow Christianity, like their parents do. It's just that me and a handful others have different opinions to our parents. I didn't stop believing some of the Bible to be rebellious -- I'll party, fool around, etc. etc. but I won't toy with religion like it's just something to spite my parents with.

They don't even know that I'm non-denominational now, or that I think the way I do.

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