Re: Religion.

by david c Wed 07 Jan 2009, 9:03 am

No two religions are the same, and many teach opposite things to one another..
I would say that many religions have inherent problems, as a result of their teachings. and it is obviously (logically) impossible for all of them to be teaching truth..
Teaching untruth is awful in itself, but that's another thing.

I would say, "religions" can be awful. It doesn't make the concept of religion itself awful however, so 'religion' itself is never awful i guess

by proust. Fri 09 Jan 2009, 4:48 am

lyrical_mess wrote:^

Religion is never awful.

People are awful. People fucking suck. But religion can't be awful. Unless a religion is founded and based upon a recipe for deep-frying small children and serving them as evening snacks.

I'm reading a book on the Aztec civilization. As you might know, they had practiced human sacrifices, and the merchants had a special holiday once a year when they bought the most beautiful slaves, bathe and fed them, and then killed and ate them.

We're used to nice religions that teach love and pacifism, but that doesn't mean that all religions are that way.

by Olympia's theme song. Thu 26 Feb 2009, 2:53 am

I'm a follower of God.
I don't have a "religion" per say...It's more of a relationship.
God doesn't necessarily only desire for us to pray and read the Bible and attend church every week--Don't get me wrong. All of that is great, and I do all of it. But one should be careful of WHY they do these things. Just so that they can say they are good Christians that are going to heaven? Or because they desire to draw closer to God?
God desires for His people to love Him, to spend time in His presence. Christianity was never supposed to be a bunch of rules.

I love learning about other faiths. So much.
I am always saddened when I see Christians forcing the cross down peoples' throats..We're supposed to be an example of God's love-not scary monsters that have no tolerance of others. ><

People ask me why I believe in God.
And it's becuase I've seen so many miracles in friends, family and in my own life.

When I look at the stars and see the constellations, and all the other beautiful patterns in the sky, I know that it could not have been created by an explosion. Everything I see around me-the trees, mountains, oceans, people-no explosion could have created this glorious world. Explosions destroy things-they do not create things.
And how else could they have been created?

That's how I look at it anyway.

by proust. Thu 26 Feb 2009, 3:08 am

Olympia's theme song. wrote:I'm a follower of God.
I don't have a "religion" per say...It's more of a relationship.

What does that even mean, to have a relationship with God? The New Covenant itself is a relationship, a strong bond.
I do think Christianity is meant to have "a bunch of rules"- Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.?

by bittersweet. Thu 26 Feb 2009, 3:39 am

kafka. wrote:
Olympia's theme song. wrote:I'm a follower of God.
I don't have a "religion" per say...It's more of a relationship.
What does that even mean, to have a relationship with God? The New Covenant itself is a relationship, a strong bond.
I do think Christianity is meant to have "a bunch of rules"- Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.?

I thought that, until a youth pastor explained it differently: that it's not 'rules', necessarily, it's something we do because we're grateful to God. For example, loving others. God loves us, we're grateful; so wouldn't we try to show that love to others?

idk, I thought that made sense. I dunno if it helps the discussion or whatever.

by sirjama Thu 26 Feb 2009, 3:49 am

i think its entirly possible to have a relationship with God beyond christianity. i did for the first 13 years of my life and its not untill 4 years of church i lost most of my faith and now im grabbing at the shreds of whats left....
if you can have a relationship with god before all else. any rules or any customs. everything else like loving people caring and all will follow and you may never go to church but you can still love god.

by proust. Thu 26 Feb 2009, 4:13 am

shipwrecked wrote:I thought that, until a youth pastor explained it differently: that it's not 'rules', necessarily, it's something we do because we're grateful to God. For example, loving others. God loves us, we're grateful; so wouldn't we try to show that love to others?

idk, I thought that made sense. I dunno if it helps the discussion or whatever.

"Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

I don't see how that's not a rule.
Some denominations fear rules, others consider the Holy Tradition valid and extremely important. Also, look at it this way- I was raised Orthodox, we don't discuss the Bible, I mean we don't read a chapter and then the teacher asks us what we think God meant by it. Because we're kids and the Bible is a huge book, highly interpretable. There is just one Orthodox dogma, interpretations are decided in synods and other meetings between the scholars. Back to my point, God commands you not to kill, not to steal, to love Him, love your neighbor as yourself, etc. but of course you should be able to realize that what you do is wrong on your own, it's just like with human laws - you should know that it's not right to kill an other person, but we still have a law that punishes those who do.

sirjama wrote:i think its entirly possible to have a relationship with God beyond christianity. i did for the first 13 years of my life and its not untill 4 years of church i lost most of my faith and now im grabbing at the shreds of whats left....
if you can have a relationship with god before all else. any rules or any customs. everything else like loving people caring and all will follow and you may never go to church but you can still love god.

But that's exactly what I don't understand, what does having a relationship with God means?
God loves you whether you are a good Christian or not, there's always a strong bond between you and Him.

by **more adventurous.** Thu 26 Feb 2009, 4:17 am

If you turn away from God, how is there a strong relationship or bond between you?
Yes, He will always, always love you regardless of what you do.

But if you turn away from Him, there's only love from His side.

Also, just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have a relationship with God, per say. I don't know how exactly to describe it, but it's more than reading the Bible or going to Church. I think it is even more than praying.
It's being close to Him.

I'm sorry. I know what I mean, but I can't explain.

by .I'm Not Afraid. Thu 26 Feb 2009, 4:40 am

Thaddeus wrote:
Also, just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have a relationship with God, per say. I don't know how exactly to describe it, but it's more than reading the Bible or going to Church. I think it is even more than praying.
It's being close to Him.

I'm sorry. I know what I mean, but I can't explain.

I know what you mean, don't worry. ^.^

It's almost like you have to listen to God. Sort of like in a conversation. I know, for me personally, I've had conversations with God before. I wasn't talking out loud or anything, it was like in my head, but I KNEW it was Him.

It's like in an actual friendship with your best friend, you guys talk to each other (I would hope...). And how can you have a relationship with God if you're not talking to Him or listening to Him?

Am I making sense?

by **more adventurous.** Thu 26 Feb 2009, 4:51 am

Yes. You make a lot of sense, and that's what I mean.

It's like when it comes to believing in God. Just because you believe in God doesn't mean you follow him. Satan believes in God but he doesn't worship or follow him.

Just being Christian doesn't mean you have a relationship with God. At least, not the relationship you could have, like described above.

by Olympia's theme song. Fri 27 Feb 2009, 11:57 pm

Rules are present in Christianity, yes.
But it's not only based off those rules...

If you turn away from God, He still loves you. But you hurt God so much when you do turn away. What kind of father would want to see his children stray from him?
On the other hand, when you stay close to Him and love Him with all your heart, you please Him so much.

by proust. Sat 28 Feb 2009, 4:40 am

.I'm Not Afraid. wrote:It's like in an actual friendship with your best friend, you guys talk to each other (I would hope...). And how can you have a relationship with God if you're not talking to Him or listening to Him?

Am I making sense?

And God talks back?
whatnow? O_O

What makes you think that's God?

I like the psalms, I have an seventeen century translation of them that I use sometimes. They're just not ordinary words, I could not talk to God the same way I do with my best friend, I respect Him too much, praying, that kind of connection, it's simply too special. And you said that having a "relationship" with God has nothing to do with praying, but if you love Him, or just if you want to be close to Him don't you feel the need to pray?

If Christianity is not based off rules, then on what is it based off? Everyone just interprets the Bible however they want, there's no such thing as heresy?

by **more adventurous.** Sat 28 Feb 2009, 5:10 am

A relationship with God is more than just praying. I wish I could say I had a good relationship with God, but it isn't what it could be. I pray every night and I believe in Him. I don't go to church, rarely read the bible and I don't talk to Him the way I could.

Jesus is supposed to be our best friend.

And also, yes God can talk back. It doesn't have to be some big voice you hear, but can come in other ways. But I do know people who have heard God talking to them. It's something that is up to you. It's whether or not you have faith that it is God communicating with you.

by proust. Sat 28 Feb 2009, 2:27 pm

Thaddeus wrote:A relationship with God is more than just praying. I wish I could say I had a good relationship with God, but it isn't what it could be. I pray every night and I believe in Him. I don't go to church, rarely read the bible and I don't talk to Him the way I could.

Jesus is supposed to be our best friend.

And also, yes God can talk back. It doesn't have to be some big voice you hear, but can come in other ways. But I do know people who have heard God talking to them. It's something that is up to you. It's whether or not you have faith that it is God communicating with you.

I meant, how do you know that it's not someone else? The Devil, or that you're just imagining it. The supernatural revelation was over a few good hundred years ago - we have the Holy Scriptures, the Prophets, etc. God speaks to us through them, we don't need Him to reveal Himself personally to each one of us. I think we're trying to secularize religion too much, we try to take away everything mystical, symbolic or miraculous about it, we try to make God smaller, bring Him down to our level, make Him human, treat Him as though He was human.

I think God is a little more than just a best friend, I just can't be all casual about these things. -shrug-

by Olympia's theme song. Sat 28 Feb 2009, 7:47 pm

The Bible says that He is the father to the fatherless.
He is my Father. I will view him as my Heavenly Father. I have undying respect for Him. I'm not like sitting in my room going "So God, what's up? Anything new happening up there?"
The best friend thing is more of the level of love you have for Him...I love Him more than anyone. He is my Best friend. He is my Father.

by proust. Sat 28 Feb 2009, 10:01 pm

That's just the thing, best friend is a few levels lower than Creator or Father.
This is a personal opinion but I don't think that you can love God without loving His whole creation just as much, with a universal sentiment of love? I hope to be able to acquire that one day, I have yet to manage to distance myself from all feelings except that of love. But I am a worm, not a man?

by .I'm Not Afraid. Sun 01 Mar 2009, 12:30 am

kafka. wrote:
Thaddeus wrote:A relationship with God is more than just praying. I wish I could say I had a good relationship with God, but it isn't what it could be. I pray every night and I believe in Him. I don't go to church, rarely read the bible and I don't talk to Him the way I could.

Jesus is supposed to be our best friend.

And also, yes God can talk back. It doesn't have to be some big voice you hear, but can come in other ways. But I do know people who have heard God talking to them. It's something that is up to you. It's whether or not you have faith that it is God communicating with you.
I meant, how do you know that it's not someone else? The Devil, or that you're just imagining it.

The thing is what's being said. If you're receiving a revelation about something that you need to change in your life, something you know you've been doing wrong, or maybe and idea that you just know you couldn't come up with on your own, something that's revealed to you about someone else that you would have no other way of knowing. Things along that line, you can just tell that it's God.

I mean, would the Devil get into your mind and tell you to change something? Or give you an idea that would help advance the church? Or tell you to go talk to someone about something in their life? ... Really?

One of the biggest things that I've had trouble with is telling the difference between spirits, and honestly I'm still working on it. And doubt plays a big factor as well, "Is this just me?" "Am I making this up?" etc. But when I really think about it, in my normal everyday life I do not just randomly think about this stuff that I receive when I'm in the presence of God.

by **more adventurous.** Sun 01 Mar 2009, 3:59 am

kafka. wrote:That's just the thing, best friend is a few levels lower than Creator or Father.

He can be your Father or Creator without being your best friend.
But he can be your best friend while being your Father or Creator.

There's a difference.

by lyrical_mess Sun 08 Mar 2009, 12:39 am

kafka. wrote:
lyrical_mess wrote:^

Religion is never awful.

People are awful. People fucking suck. But religion can't be awful. Unless a religion is founded and based upon a recipe for deep-frying small children and serving them as evening snacks.
I'm reading a book on the Aztec civilization. As you might know, they had practiced human sacrifices, and the merchants had a special holiday once a year when they bought the most beautiful slaves, bathe and fed them, and then killed and ate them.

We're used to nice religions that teach love and pacifism, but that doesn't mean that all religions are that way.

Right, but the foundation of the religion (I assume) was not "death to all".

I'm not quite sure, but I think religion was science once upon a time. Why does the sun rise and set? Because Sun God says so. Why is the sky blue. Because Sky God says so. Why does it rain? Sky God is sad/Sky God wants to bless us.

I think it mostly started out as explanations. And sacrifices are meant to appease God (although the idea of Bakrid makes me way squeamish). Humans assume that God is appeased with a sacrifice. For all we know, it works or just pisses God off even more. Who knows?

So again: its not the religon, its the people.

by proust. Wed 25 Mar 2009, 1:51 am

I've been debating this with myself for the past week or so.

Why is Hell necessary?

I mean, I understand why we need the idea of Hell to scare people into doing good things, but at the same time it seems completely useless to punish people for ethernity. I mean, they can't change anything, they can't repent, they can't make it better, it's just constant pain and it seems -to me- completely unreasonable. Sometime like Purgatory sounds a lot more just [thus godly?], but the Purgatory's not even mentioned in the Bible.

by Patient X Sat 28 Mar 2009, 3:51 pm

Why is Hell necessary?

I mean, I understand why we need the idea of Hell to scare people into doing good things, but at the same time it seems completely useless to punish people for ethernity. I mean, they can't change anything, they can't repent, they can't make it better, it's just constant pain and it seems -to me- completely unreasonable. Sometime like Purgatory sounds a lot more just [thus godly?], but the Purgatory's not even mentioned in the Bible.

To even the balance between good and evil. I thought that very obvious.
You can't have just a heaven. Because then you would have to much good. You need hell to even it out.

by proust. Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:12 pm

Why not have Heaven and Purgatory then?

by **gloria-** Sat 28 Mar 2009, 11:34 pm

it's been my belief now for a few years that, if god forgives all sins, wouldn't he also forgive the mortal sins? in which case, there wouldn't be a hell, because everyone would be forgiven and be in heaven...

maybe that's just me though. someone tried to explain to me once about the seven deadly sins, but i just don't understand how they can be unforgivable if god is all-forgiving...

by **more adventurous.** Sun 29 Mar 2009, 12:03 am

Your sins are not forgiven unless you accept Jesus into your heart, and become a Christian.

by GhostNinja Sun 29 Mar 2009, 12:37 am

I'm personally agnostic. I don't know if there is a God or not, and I don't really care tbh. Just live it as it is.

And i'm gunna be honest here and say I don't understand why Satan would punish people in Hell cause they're pretty much on his side. It makes little sense to me.

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