Re: Religion.

by the way Wed 19 Nov 2008, 3:54 pm

Heartswell. wrote:That's right. It's the standard word for 'God' for Muslims [even Arab non-Muslims at times]. It's just another widely-known term for 'God'.
>_> In Islam, we actually have 99 adjectives that can be used as an alternative for Allah [they're his 99 names] like, 'Al-Alim' meaning 'The All Knowing, The Omniscient'.
You can actually find them here.

That's amazing.
I do think the Christian God and Allah are very alike.
'Cuz the followers of Ishmael are the Muslims, and the followers of Isaac are the Christians. Yet they were both Abraham's sons.
So it's like, God has many names.

by lyrical_mess Wed 19 Nov 2008, 5:51 pm

^ *undertakes the role of captain obvious* They ARE the same. I mean, I personally believe that God is God full stop. However, if you want to get technical, God spoke to Moses (I think) on Mt. Sinai and then sent down Jesus and then Mohammed (latest prophet). So yeah. Its all the same being. *payed attention in history like a good girl*

I also came up with an interesting insight. Mikey said he has faith, not in God, but in good things like love and friendship. At the end of the day, isn't that what God is about?

There's this story. A man goes to a barber and they chat, eventually getting to the subject of religion. The customer doesn't believe in God. When the barber asks why not, the man replies that it doesn't seem possible that God can exist when he seems absent in the lives of so many. If God exists, why do people suffer?

The barber takes his customer to the window and shows him a man on the street down below, playing card with a friend. The man has a long beard and long hair. The barber says "If a man grows his hair like that, does that mean barbers don't exist?"

The thing is, if you wanna get your hair cut you have to go to the barber. The barber never comes to you and offers. He's just there. God will never seek you out; its the other way around. God does not force his love on you, just as a barber cannot force his services on the hairy. You have to look for it and doubtless you will find it if you really want to. And that search, I believe, is the point of prayer.

However, if you declare that all you believe in is love, well, that's awesome. Love is a pretty awesome religion.

by guilded sleuth Wed 19 Nov 2008, 6:27 pm

I don't think it really matters what word you use for "God", as long as it's the same God.
If Your God has all the same characteristics as the Jesus-God, and if the theology fits with what is written in the Bible then it's the same God in my opinion

And my blabber up the top wasn't directed at anyone in particular x]

=]

by proust. Wed 19 Nov 2008, 7:45 pm

lyrical_mess wrote:Offtopic, but where do you live Kafka? Israel/Palestine-ish area?

No, not really.
I live in Romania, and although my part of the country -Transylvania- was under Hungarian occupation since the 13th century until 1918, the rest of the country was constantly at war with the Ottoman Empire since the 14th century when Bâyezîd I attacked us and until 1878 when we gained our independence the country was either under direct domination, at direct war with Istanbul or just paying taxes. All our historical ballads, poems, etc. are about fighting off the Ottomans.
Of course, the conflict with Hungarians is more closed to us because there's a big Hungarian minority and the one with the Russians goes on because of the Republic of Moldavia - WWII - the Cold War, but it's still a fact to take into consideration. History is biased and subjective and we create our opinion on the world around us based on it.

lyrical_mess wrote:^ *undertakes the role of captain obvious* They ARE the same. I mean, I personally believe that God is God full stop. However, if you want to get technical, God spoke to Moses (I think) on Mt. Sinai and then sent down Jesus and then Mohammed (latest prophet). So yeah. Its all the same being. *payed attention in history like a good girl*

I also came up with an interesting insight. Mikey said he has faith, not in God, but in good things like love and friendship. At the end of the day, isn't that what God is about?
However, if you declare that all you believe in is love, well, that's awesome. Love is a pretty awesome religion.

God is love.

We talked about the Ecclesiastes in school today. And we ended up talking about Love. And the two rather closed-minded girls who lead the discussion -they are otherwise nice girls, just really closed minded- said that you cannot love God if you don't love thy neighbor.

My question was can you love thy neighbor without loving God?.
They eluded the answer.

by lyrical_mess Wed 19 Nov 2008, 8:29 pm

I think you can. Some people believe, subconciously or just in a different way. I think even the most cynical and closed people believe in a higher power. It might be science or it might be love. But that higher power gives us hope and something to believe in. That is God. Whether anyone likes it or not.

You can love thy neighbor and that automatically means you love God. You just don't know it. And once again, it may not mean you love God by name. But God is love, so if you love - truly love, like a good human being - than you believe.

No wait...*Confused*

by makoto kino. Fri 21 Nov 2008, 11:50 am

"Religion is the opiate of the masses"

by lyrical_mess Fri 21 Nov 2008, 1:38 pm

Funny thing is, a lot of Communists here are Christian. Like, half the CPI is Christian. o.O much?

by makoto kino. Sat 29 Nov 2008, 6:02 pm

I thought the aim of Communism was to wipe our religion and have everyone equal?

by lyrical_mess Mon 01 Dec 2008, 11:45 pm

yeah...idk really. But its causing a huuuge issue here with some of the Hindu extremists. I hate the whole thing.

by **LADIES AND GENTLEMEN** Fri 05 Dec 2008, 10:37 am

kafka. wrote:
Ryan Ross wrote:That actually made me feel physically sick.

What the fuck happened to freedom of religion?

I may not be religious, but I nearly converted to islam a while back, when I held more faith in... well, everything.
That's just it, don't people have the right not to agree with a certain religion?

I've been friends with this boy [the librarian] for about two years and a half and for the past year until recently, we used to fight all the time. Among others because he's homophobic, he thinks homosexuality is wrong and doesn't support gay marriage. Now this obviously drove me absolutely mad and I tried everything to talk him out of it. Until I realized I was being a huge hypocrite, who am I to decide what opinion is the right one? Who am I to try to enforce my opinions in others?
He doesn't abuse -verbally or physically- anyone, he doesn't go around telling how wrong it is, just when asked he'll give you his honest opinion. The same way you or me would.

Oh, no, I know what you mean

But what I mean is, it IS a library and what makes the Bible any more worthy than the Quaran? They're both books.

by house m.d. Sat 06 Dec 2008, 2:22 pm

Is anyone here, except me, Jewish?
whatnow? O_O

I don't practice my religion, however, I do believe in God. My family also prays on a Friday night, but that's more to do with my dad.

Like most people have already said, I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe, even if that is not believing at all. Just because I'm one religion, doesn't mean I won't talk to or accept a different one.

by lyrical_mess Tue 09 Dec 2008, 1:33 pm

Ryan Ross wrote:
Oh, no, I know what you mean

But what I mean is, it IS a library and what makes the Bible any more worthy than the Quaran? They're both books.

I think its a matter of belief. Both claim to be God's word to humans. I think its kind of like...the Quran is v3.0.

But perhaps Christians believe its fraud? That only the Bible is most up to date and Mohammed was a liar? Sounds too harsh, though, so idk.

by proust. Tue 09 Dec 2008, 6:05 pm

^
Library owners have the right to decide what books the buy. Don't books get banned from school libraries all the time?

There's a story in Boccaccio's Decameron -somewhere in the first three days I think- about a Muslim Sheik who asks a Jewish merchant what is the true faith. He answers by telling him the story of an old man who had three sons. He had one golden ring which he wanted to pass on to his children, but because he loved them all equally, he made two copies of the ring and gave each ring to one of his sons without knowing who received the true gold one.
In mathematics there are a type of questions/problems that have no answer.
hmmmm

by lyrical_mess Tue 09 Dec 2008, 9:33 pm

like 0^0.

because n^0=1

but 0^n = 0.

so what is n^n when n = 0 ?

undefined.

by **LADIES AND GENTLEMEN** Tue 09 Dec 2008, 9:55 pm

I like that <3

by **gloria-** Wed 10 Dec 2008, 1:37 am

Ryan Ross wrote:I like that, carmen

<3

me carmen?
i didn't say anything...

by belle of the boulevard. Wed 10 Dec 2008, 2:19 am

i think he meant andy or sruti. lol@chu

by **LADIES AND GENTLEMEN** Wed 10 Dec 2008, 8:57 am

danger! wrote:
Ryan Ross wrote:I like that, carmen

<3

me carmen?
i didn't say anything...

know
I'm an idiot whatnow? O_O

I meant Andy.

for some reason I always get you two confused. Like, your accounts. IDK why cause you're an LM and she's not o___o ignore me it was late lol@chu

by proust. Wed 10 Dec 2008, 8:53 pm

Ryan Ross wrote:
danger! wrote:
Ryan Ross wrote:I like that, carmen

<3

me carmen?
i didn't say anything...

know
I'm an idiot

I meant Andy.

for some reason I always get you two confused. Like, your accounts. IDK why cause you're an LM and she's not o___o ignore me it was late

It's okay, I'm just flattered that someone could mistake me for Carmen.

You should read the original story [I looked it up it's the third story in the first day] because it's a bit more complicated in the book and certainly more beautiful. Actually the Decameron is full of story about religion, especially not so honest clerics.

Which brings up the question,
is organized church necessary?

by **she had the world.** Sun 14 Dec 2008, 7:31 pm

I know this may come off really bad, but I've always wondered about this.

Where on earth did the bible come from? Because there doesn't seem to be evidence for everything the bible talks about that happened in the past. As far as I know, someone could of just claimed that 'God talked to them' and that made up some story that we can find in the bible.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is my opinion. For me, a lot of religion is flawed. And maybe that's why you need to have 'belief.' But I believe that some of the teachings of the bible are a little, uhm, unfair really.

Quick question. The bible, has it ever been updated? How come we have the 'Old Testament' and then the 'New Testament.' In my own personal opinion, Religion should change and grow and adapt to our day and age. That's what they did in the past? Christianity came from the Roman Catholics. It was an English King that founded Christianity. He had money, and he had political status, and people converted to Christianity.

And how did religion come about anyway? Where is the proof of Adam and Eve? Because I've never seen any.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but this is my opinion. The bible teaches us to 'Love thy Neighbour,' so because my neighbours are Indian and have a different religion to mine with different beliefs I shouldn't accept them or their religion? The bible comes off to me as some way contradictory, when we are taught from it to accept people and love them, but then tells us that so much stuff is wrong?

With the way society has developed and changed and peoples values have changed, wouldn't you think that in some way these changes would also take part in the Church? Because on the most part, we accept so much in society today that the Bible says is wrong. One of the majors being homosexuality. And yeah, there is a percentage that think it's wrong, etc, but if the enitre population of the world followed what the Bible told us and didn't accept it, wouldn't we still be shunning homosexuals? Or whatever they use to do when people were to afraid to come out with their true sexuality back in the day?

by proust. Mon 15 Dec 2008, 3:18 am

I will try to answer your questions, but my knowledge is -obviously- limitated.

Eyelash Wishes wrote:Where on earth did the bible come from?

Actually, the Bible has more than just one author. For example the first five books of the Old Testament are thought to be written by Moses, the Psalms by David and the Acts by Luke. The Christian Bible we know today was put together later, somewhere in the 4th century, I think.
Actually, the writers of the Bible claimed that God had talked to them, or at least that they wrote under the influence of divine inspiration.

Eyelash Wishes wrote:Quick question. The bible, has it ever been updated? How come we have the 'Old Testament' and then the 'New Testament.'

The Old Testament is practically the Jewish Bible, while the New one focuses mainly on Jesus.
I think the word "testament" also means deal, covenant. The Old Testament enforces the old covenant: the Mosaic Laws - the tenth commandments, while the New Testament enforces the new covenant: the new law Christ brings - love thy neighbour.

The oldest Biblical manuscripts date back to the fourth century and we at least like to believe they haven't changed since then.

Eyelash Wishes wrote: In my own personal opinion, Religion should change and grow and adapt to our day and age. That's what they did in the past? Christianity came from the Roman Catholics. It was an English King that founded Christianity. He had money, and he had political status, and people converted to Christianity.

Ever heard of the Reformation and Counter-reformation? Faith did change over time, a recent example would be the fact that John Paul II admited that it was a mistake to condamn Galileo Galilei.
I'm sorry to contradict you, but Christianity did not come from the Roman Catholics. Before the 1054 Schism there was just one Christian faith, later on it dived into the Catholic and Orthodox church and from the Catholic church several other denominations were created.

Eyelash Wishes wrote:And how did religion come about anyway? Where is the proof of Adam and Eve? Because I've never seen any.

Religion came from myths.
Mircea Eliade has many interesting theories, among which one that argues that the presence of two realities: the sacred and the profane in the world of a homo religiosus [prototype of the religious man], the sacred not only contains God - gods, but all godly manifestations. Eliade also says that in traditional societies the origin gives value to an object. The Sacred is valuable, thus it needs an origin. In his view, all myths were essentially creation myths.

But that's just Eliade's view, and it's interesting to look into, it is generally considered that people started to "make up" explanations for the events they couldn't understand.

Eyelash Wishes wrote:I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but this is my opinion. The bible teaches us to 'Love thy Neighbour,' so because my neighbours are Indian and have a different religion to mine with different beliefs I shouldn't accept them or their religion? The bible comes off to me as some way contradictory, when we are taught from it to accept people and love them, but then tells us that so much stuff is wrong?

With the way society has developed and changed and peoples values have changed, wouldn't you think that in some way these changes would also take part in the Church? Because on the most part, we accept so much in society today that the Bible says is wrong. One of the majors being homosexuality. And yeah, there is a percentage that think it's wrong, etc, but if the enitre population of the world followed what the Bible told us and didn't accept it, wouldn't we still be shunning homosexuals? Or whatever they use to do when people were to afraid to come out with their true sexuality back in the day?

Well there are two main problems with Christians and the Bible: a/ the Bible is interpretable, b/not all Christians follow the Bible anyway.

Frankly, I am extremely disappointed in how the Christian community works nowadays myself, I hope to be able to do something about it, but I don't think we can achieve anything through hostility.

I hope I answered your questions at least to a small extend.

by belle of the boulevard. Mon 15 Dec 2008, 4:08 am

one interesting view i've heard is that some churches are ruled by the fear of god and others are ruled by the love of god.

by lyrical_mess Mon 15 Dec 2008, 11:11 pm

That is interesting. And I think its true.

Some people pray because they think God will punish them for doing otherwise.

Some people pray because they love God so much that they just have to let God know somehow.

by belle of the boulevard. Mon 15 Dec 2008, 11:44 pm

the major example i've seen is the catholic view on worship, which i believe comes under the "fear" category, compared with many other denominations of christianity and their view of god, which would be His love.

by proust. Tue 16 Dec 2008, 12:09 am

What makes you think Catholics worship God out of fear, while "other" denominations do it out of love?

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